It is not "people" who ingore context but you who are grasping at straws of literal nitpicking to justify your beliefs in the light of what Christ or others as recorded in Scripture clearly taught.]. Your idea about "universal salvation" among church fathers is wrongheaded. Neovia group's Profile, Revenue and Employees. Isa 66:2224 As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me, declares the LORD, so will your name and descendants endure. And as far as Rabbi Kimhi goes, note that even he stated the alleged dump of Gehenna became an analogy for the judgment of the wicked, which demonstrates that even the first writer to make this connection saw it to be an analogy for the place that the wicked will be judged. Even if they are used to describe God as "the aionian God" they do not have to mean eternal. The "captivity". Their meaning cannot be derived from the "object" (which means you assumption that salvation can be eternal but punishment cannot) but from the context and the context in the passage referred above is a parallel structure. Though I believe you are talking to the Universalists in this post, there are times when "eternal" doesn't mean a duration of time. The three parables you mention also do not say how long the consequences for failure last or whether there is anything else to take place afterward. And he talks about those going this way because that is what the rich man asks for, for someone in heaven to come and alleviate his suffering. The reason they didn't die out was because there was a constant supply of refuge being fed them. It is translated "hell" every time. No one. Your email address will not be published. 'Gehenna is a repugnant place, into which filth and cadavers are thrown, and in which fires perpetually burn in order to consume the filth and bones; on which account, by analogy, the judgement of the wicked is called 'Gehenna.'' 1 [1841], 404-5). I find it interesting that people use the ideas they have been taught about 'hell' being eternal and transfer that to a symbolic statement that Jesus made about worms and fire. Ezekiel doesn't utter any either and he doesn't even touch on anything linked to "eternal fire". Out of six major "seminaries" ". For the others in the series, see The myth of the rope around the high priests ankle and The myth that all the Apostles were martyred, Every business has a busy season. Purchasers of the Photo Companion to the Bible and the Pictorial Library of Bible Lands are granted liberal usage rights for the images for personal and educational purposes. "Even when the term "aionian" is applied to God Himself, this does not mean it is describing Him as eternal. Shouldn't then all be all in all? If it was clearly taught in scripture, why was no council convened to condemn the heresy of universal salvation as soon as it came on the scene? Fears becalmed. [Worms and fire normally die and go out (no need for nitpicking about how going out is not being quenched) this is why Jesus raises the point that these worms and this fire (which is obviously figurative language) do NOT DIE and do NOT GO OUT. But "the flesh" has nothing to dod with worms and fire. Students may use the material on this site for school projects without permission. You however are reading things into the words "aion" and "aionian". When the food source dries up, these moths have nowhere to lay their eggs! Rate: Ohio Serpent Mound in the News Jude 1:7 "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the VENGEANCE OF ETERNAL FIRE. The doors were certainly locked as long as the wedding feast endures. Gehenna -- the Valley of Hinnom -- was indeed a valley outside Jerusalem. He is talking about things that detrimental to us, if you want to say so, "the flesh". At least until a council comes along decades later and says that anyone not confessing a belief in an "eternal hell" is not a Christian? In v.15-16 it seems pretty clear the context of this passage is a universal judgment on all flesh. and rules called canons. Specifically, Bailey states: [Kimchi] maintained that in this loathsome valley fires were kept burning perpetually to consume the filth and cadavers thrown into it. PDF Now I know why I never found any. And that's probably what Jerome is after, distinguishing between this end-less but not time-less eternity and the God's eternity without such constraints, wihtout beginning or end. The fire never went out. Calling God "The God of the ages" (aions) is stating a fact, God is God over the ages. And of course, the worm did not die there, meaning that there were always new maggots going through their life-cycles, feeding on the trash. The thing is, that as the "aion" during which the punishment takes place is coming to an end,DEATH WILL BE SWALLOWED UP BY LIFE! I doubt I will convince you of anything and I don't have time to continue a running debate, but every time I go through this process, I learn something so it has been worth it. If all men could be saved, it would be great, but we are long past this (let alone all creatures). We should rather shun them than let them damage our salvation. It doesn't say whether anyone would do that. If ALL will be made alive than any passage referring to future punishment MUST be viewed in light of that fact. Romans 5 speaks of "condemnation to all men" but of "the many will be made righteous" not "all will made righteous". There is BTW no clear verse saying that the kingdom would have an end, many things that speak against it. You clearly havened thought the whole matter through and would trade in salvation for 20th century sensibilities. 24 And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind., "If it was clearly taught in scripture, why was no council convened to condemn the heresy of universal salvation ". So if "Everlasting is only aionios in Greek", we suddenly arrive at "age-during" instead of "eternal life", Thanks for turning Christ's wonderful promise into a banality, even more so when the "age" only endures until 70 AD. The idea is that the Valley of Hinnon laid just south of Jerusalem, immediately outside its walls,and that all the refuse and waste from Jerusalem was burned there, and it was pretty much the most disgusting and horrifying place on earth. It was like the time of the reproach of the daughters of Syria and all those around her, and of jthe daughters of the Philistines, who despise you everywhere. Maybe you guys think you are as smart as our all knowing all seeing creator. Gehenna - The Prophetic Garbage Dump. Yes, that Origen took the idea of universal salvation to its extreme (though it is unclear how far he actually believed this to be factual or whether he was simply engaging in an experiment of thought) and it was this extreme form that was shocking to many Christians. GEHENNA ga-hen'-a (geenna (see Grimm-Thayer, under the word)): Gehenna is a transliteration from the Aramaic form of the Hebrew ge-hinnom, "valley of Hinnom." This latter form, however, is rare in the Old Testament, the prevailing name being "the valley of the son of Hinnom." PS. Why consider them 'saints'? Gehenna, also called Gehinnom, abode of the damned in the afterlife in Jewish and Christian eschatology (the doctrine of last things). The wonderful promise that is "You lot will experience everlasting happiness while the rest of the world suffers unimaginable torment for eternity"? Thats it. It is not "people" who ingore context but you who are grasping at straws of literal nitpicking to justify your beliefs in the light of what Christ or others as recorded in Scripture clearly taught. En contraire. The 'flesh' is also the context of what Isaiah 66:24 is dealing with. Hell, Gehenna the garbage dump. In Luke 16:26 Abraham explains why he can't send Lazarus to the rich man with a few drops of water. Of course, since it was a garbage dump, it was necessary to keep the garbage burning in order to reduce the stench and to limit the number of flies and rats. OR, the age-during life with Christ could be just that, since in 1 Corinthians it talks about Christ giving up his kingdom to the Father at the end of time. He is not being literal here, He is speaking about cutting off or getting rid of something of the carnal man. What does a 2000-year-old garbage dump have to do with us, in modern America? You are right about the two Gregory's too. The verses are clearly parallel, so that eternal MUST mean the same for the blessed and the cursed. This is the third entry in a three-part series deconstructing popular illustrations that pastors give their congregations, all of which might sound good or spiritual, but do not correspond to history or reality. [however,] there is no evidence for this claim; it can be traced to a commentary on the book of Psalms written by Rabbi David Kimhi in the early thirteenth century CE. After the ages, there will be no need to describe Him to anyone because all will know Him fully, just as they also are known by Him now. I cannot vouch for Jerome, his meaning or his wording. The Burning Garbage Dump of Gehenna is a myth - posted in Archaeology, Biblical History & Textual Criticism: I've long accepted (without checking - shame on me) the argument that in NT Jerusalem, the valley of Hinnom contained a permanently burning garbage dump, and lay behind the use of Gehenna as a metaphor for complete and total destruction. "Gehenna (Gei Hinnom) became the common lay-stall garbage dump of the city, . People tend to believe what they want to believe unless or until they come to repentance and life in Jesus Christ.. 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. The pictures on this website are copyrighted and may be used only with permission. Thus already in Old Testament times, the Valley of Hinnom was associated with the destiny of the wicked. By Jesus' time, the Valley of Hinnom was a full fledged garbage dump with its wretched rotting aromas, howls of scavenging wild animals, and smoldering and perpetual fires. What church are you talking about? [What has that got to do with it. Consider this myth to be thoroughly debunked. The New Jerusalem will contain people body and soul living in space in time, with God in happiness for all eternity. Are you referring to Origen? PDF. And Christ spoke (e.g. Jerusalem's Hinnom Valley also became the perpetual burning-garbage dump and city sewer. The explanation for the fire of Gehenna lies not in a burning trash dump, but in the burning of sacrificed children. So no "this verse could be left out" reasoning. However, Strack and Billerbeck state that there is neither archeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources. The planned facility closures, along with a marketing office, could likely lead to the loss of 88 jobs, said a spokesperson. Some scholars claim Gehenna later became a " garbage dump ," where refuse was subsequently burned. I haven't memorised all the conciliar canons and anathemata but I think neither have you. Because talking about God is nothing more than information for the unknowing? Does that make the Bible false? It is clear: Gehenna is hell, not a trash dump. Uhh no. He claims they are already undergoing it. "You have paid for your lewdness and your abominations, says the Lord. Is that decree retroactive? Put simply, there is no evidence that the valley was, in fact, a perpetually burning garbage dump. If it was not condemned, it was because it wasn't widespread and there were more pressing issues. Are you serious? To die and go hell is being separated from God and since Jesus said, And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life (Matt 25:46). According to the Jewish scholar David Kimhi (c. 1160-c. 1235 C.E. Oh, and neither Gregory played any part at "Nicea", Nazianzen played a short role at Constantinople in 381. When a fire is not quenched it burns UNTIL IT RUNS OUT OF FUEL. One can have a temporal stay with the eternal God. There simply is no evidence to support the idea, but because it seems a reasonable explanation for the origin of the Hinnom Valley as hell, writers and preachers accept and propagate the story. What has that got to do with it. Even if I couldn't convince you, I am glad that you got something out of it. I find the scriptures remarkable, and you, sir, have nailed these difficult questions to the cross itself. 66:24?. But that was the exception and in violation of the principles. In Mark 9 is Jesus taking a literal prophecy in Isaiah and using it as a parable of something "eternal"? Therefore, behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when it will no more be called Topheth, or the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter; for they will bury in Topheth, because there is no room elsewhere. Nice work. One should also remember that archeology developers it's conclusions from the remains of history and of necessity because of the often small amount found makes wrong conclusions. Then he mentions the case of those who would cross from the place of suffering over to "Abraham's bosom". Obviously, this fire is not still burning today, so this fire had an "age to come" or better put a "forever result" quality to it vs. a duration quality to it. In times of war, decaying human flesh mingled with the rotting garbageimagine the vile vision. Connection between Greek word used for "Hell," and garbage dumb. For all those who think that the 2 times eternal in Mat.25:46 must be the same is talking nonsense,in 5 other verses it also happens and in those it cannot be the same at all.Romans 16:25-26 and Titus 1:2 and Galatians 1:4-5 and Ephesians 3:9-11 and 1 Timothes 6:17-19 So how you explain that hell is pagan nonsense God is love!!! The KJV translates Strong's G1067 in the following manner: hell (9x), hell fire (with G4442) (3x). He does not say say that Sodom underwent "punishment of eternal fire" but that Sodom is an example for those that will. This is talking about a place where the worms do not die, (?the flesh is never fully consumed) and the fire is not quenched. If this is supposed to be a literal story about the suffering of an eternal "hell", there would be no need to explain the gulf as being necessary to prevent people from going from Abraham's bosom to the other side where there is torment. must be explained away if you want to cling to a doctrine of eternal torture. Even when the term "aionian" is applied to God Himself, this does not mean it is describing Him as eternal. The parables all imply that the judgement is final, because "the door was locked" it is an unfounded assumption on your part that it would be opened again. The three offenses are being angry without a cause, calling someone 'raca', and calling someone 'fool'. Out of six major "seminaries" in the early church, four taught universal salvation, one taught annihilation (Ephesus)and one taught eternal punishment (Rome). So "time" as we know it is not eternal. Isaiah 66:15-16 makes it pretty clear when the context of the rest of the chapter takes place. But just as soon as Josiah died, the Jews returned to Tophet. Thanks for the article, I have always wanted to see some evidence for calling associating Gehenna with a burning trash heap. If it was consistently translated as 'eternal' people would see how ridiculous that idea is. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me, says the LORD. eitchen midden, kitchen midden, midden - (archeology) a mound of domestic refuse containing shells and animal bones marking the site of a prehistoric settlement. There are quite a few verses in the gospel expressing the same idea in different words, e.g. It does not need to be quenched. Does no one know about the millennium, a period of teaching, after which satan is loosed for a season to test those that followed him in the first earth age. Gehenna became a place where corpses of criminals, dead animals, and all manners of refuse were thrown to be destroyed. You can also spare us quasi-racist ideas like >>legalistic "glasses" that came into the church from the Latin converts<<, Jude 1:7 "In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. There was not a trash pile perpetually burning. But the old Jerusalem had a "dung gate", where the trash was taken out of the city. 20:10. In Biblical times, this place was occupied by Western Semitic pagans people who worshiped deities different from YHWH, such as Molech. Thats the earliest reference we have to it- a Rabbi writing in the middle ages from Europe, not Israel, some 1100 years after Jesus was born. Gehenna is a real place. No matter how many times people say this and it has become street truth there is no evidence that there was a town dump outside Jerusalem in the first century. 2:8 for additional contextual support. But that statement says nothing about God no longer being God after the ages. Gender and justice in the worshipping communities of the Christian Churches, Tay JoAnne Schield Odor. The origin of the "garbage dump" theory appears to be Kimchi. Much less towards others with "universalist" leanings. Yesterday Louis McBride raised the issue (HT: BibleX). He got into trouble with a lot of people over many things, but one area of his teaching was never assailed by any church council and that was his teaching on universal salvation.". She offers the following highly imaginative description of this burning refuse heap, which serves as a nice, detailed amalgamation of all the descriptions Ive heard of it over the years. . So, sulfur and sulfurous rocks know as 'brimstone' were . It traveled through the city gate and emptied into a nearby valley. If they contradict e.o., they contradict e.o. It was because Gehenna outside the city of Jerusalem was the place where the bodies of criminals were burned and when the . Even though the word "Gehenna" comes from the Valley of Hinnom, simply rendering it as "garbage dump" or "valley of waste disposal" or "burning garbage" could not be an accurate translations, because that's not what Jesus and the apostles meant when they used the word. The people in the surrounding areas dumped their trash in Gehenna, where it burned day and night. activies, not statements of faith). The interpretive contortions the universalists and eternal tormenters engaged in made my head hurt! I believe research indicates sometimes during the festivals the priests in the Temple waded in blood up to their ankles, and underground passages carried the blood of all kinds of sacrificed animals down into the Kidron Valley on the east side of the city where farmers there purchased it to use as fertilizer. There is a emergent/universalist writer named Sharon Baker who has a book called Razing Hell. In any case, Gregory Naziznen was allowed to preside over that council. You are simply ignoring these. These words can be used to describe something that is eternal, but this meaning has to be derived from the object they are used in conjunction with. Click the card to flip That did not happen. And it is obviously contradicting the parable to consider what could happen after the feast for if the kingdom is like that feast and there would be an afterwards, it would no longer be eternal. It means that there is no coming back from this destruction. The three layers of Hades were called glooms for good reason; they were realms devoid of emotion, hope, and peace. The second results in being in danger of the council, and the third results in danger of the fire of Gehenna. Everything! Only the latter is grounds for personal condemnation. Your quiet deliberations and considerations are refreshing and leave me with hope and joy, is this not the work of the Ekklesia? You first have to make the text fit your interpretation. But this doesn't give you the right to twist his words. He writes: I consulted over a dozen study Bibles on Matthew 5:22 and no less than eight of them made a reference to the rubbish heap. There is a lot of other stuff about fallen spirits changing form, etc., that makes it understandable how he would get into trouble. Those who WOULD. The Pharisees commonly used the phrase 'endless timoria', which has nothing to do with bettering the victim, but the punishment only has the satisfaction and honor of the offended party in mind. Not only that, if there were any doubt, Jesus is further clarifying what was already mentioned in Daniel 12:2 eternal is an appropriate word for the English translation. I also find it hard to be confident in any council since they often allow someone to have a leading role who would be declared a heretic a short time later, like the case of Marcellus you brought up.There seemed to be a lot of see-sawing going on. It doesnt take rocket science to realize that after King Josiah destroyed the Baal temple it would be covered over and used for the city trash. 7:32-33). Should a Complementarian Speak with Lady Preachers? The first post-apostolic council at Nicea was chaired by Gregory Nazianzen who was a universalist. Jude is not using Sodom and Gommorah as examples of those who WILL be punished, the "suffering of eternal fire" in that verse is in the PRESENT TENSE. Saying "God is eternal" is chickening out. You see, there is a difference between "material" heresy and "formal" heresy the former is error in contents, which might as well be unwitting, the latter is the obstinate insistance on such an error. Required fields are marked *. Some people use this historical tidbit to make a point either to paint a picture how foul, vivid and terrible hell would be, or alternately to suggest that there is no eternal hell, and the references Jesus makes to the fires of hell and torment was simply a reference to this burning trash pile. This practice was carried out . In Jesus' day, it was once again the city's garbage dump, where a fire was always burning to consume anything thrown on the pile ( Mark 9:43-48 ). He got into trouble with a lot of people over many things, but one area of his teaching was never assailed by any church council and that was his teaching on universal salvation. be anathema!) Isaiah had already envisioned Topheth as the fiery destiny of an enemy of God. Gey Ben Hinnom Stream. You brought up a very good point. The earliest explicit reference to the valley as a garbage dump is from the twelfth century AD, but circumstantial evidence in Jeremiah suggests this probably was true even in his time. The Greek word gehenna is found 12 times in our New Testament ScripturesJesus used the term 11 times, and James used it one time. The Gehenna Valley was thus a place of burning sewage, burning flesh, and garbage. But, I agree, that Universalists play the "eternal is not always time" hand way too much! A Christian in error is still a Christian.]. But I doubt that it was "never condemned", it certainly was in Origen's case. If 'aeturnum' always means 'eternal' then Jerome put his foot in his mouth when he wrote this. And speaking of context, you are ignoring the context that Jesus is alluding to in this passage, and that is Isaiah 66:23-24. (the only other times 'dogs' 'tables' and 'crumbs of bread' are mentioned is in the context of a gentile asking Jesus for help. Same with fire. Marcos you're welcome to reject the doctrine of eternal torment, but don't pretend that this blogpost or the Bible gives any support to your view. The people in the surrounding areas dumped their trash in Gehenna, where it burned day and night. It is one of a number of alignment-based Outer Planes that form part of the standard Dungeons & Dragons ( D&D ) cosmology, used in the Planescape , Greyhawk , and some editions of . In the lower part of the Hinnom Valley and Kidron Valley, the city dumped its waste and burned its trash. They might as well say nothing on this issue. And it is obviously contradicting the parable to consider what could happen after the feast for if the kingdom is like that feast and there would be an afterwards, it would no longer be eternal. So at that point there will be no more "aionian" life, it will be the same life as was lived in the "aion", but now it will continue outside of time. If it were "eternal pruning" and this doesn't make sense to you, your problem is with Christ. In order to be successful, corporate marketing departments prepare for these busy-seasons long in, From Black Friday to Good Friday: Easter Ad Campaigns, Russell Moore, Tyler Zach, and the Gospel For Enneagram, Rick Warren: His Stainglass Window and His Female Pastors, To Jackie Hill Perry: God Wants Christians Straight, The myth of the rope around the high priests ankle, The myth that all the Apostles were martyred, These Preachers Aint Loyal: Why Jamal Harrison Bryant is Symptomatic of a Deeper Problem. Rob Bell takes the view in Love Wins that in Jesus' day Gehenna was the "city dump": "There was a fire there, burning constantly to consume the trash." It is a metaphor for the terrible consequences of rejecting "the good and true and beautiful life that God has for us". The Gray Waste (more fully, the Gray Wastes of Hades; also, Hades, The Three Glooms, Hope's Loss or The Nadir) is a strongly neutral evil aligned plane of existence. The BiblePlaces Blog provides updates and analysis of the latest in biblical archaeology, history, and geography. The quotation begins in verse 22. This place existed at the time Jesus spoke these very words. Of course you must look towards anti-Origenists to find out about that, not admirers of the man who swept his errors (with which they didn't agree) under the carpet like Eusebius or Rufinus. One question to ask about the parable of the rich man and Lazarus Why the need for a gulf to keep those in Abraham's bosom from going to the other side where there was torment? Regarding individuals, councils excommunicated those that refused to accept a definition reached (or for crimes i.e. Same with "aionian life". As a rubbish dump, Gehenna was a place where fire burned constantly and where worms feasted on the garbage, and these images were transferred to the never-ending punishment of the rebellious. In any case, we will provide honest advice. Isaiah closes his book with these words: Isaiah 66:24 (ESV) And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. Brimstone used to be added to fuel the incineration. At the same time, I hope you will believe me that the vast majority of Christians you believe in things like eternal salvation and damnation are not motivated by any joy in seeing other people suffer but by respect for Christ's teaching, Christ's judgement and for other people's freedom of choice. Topheth has been ready for the king for a long time now. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. Because the Hinnom and Kidron Valleys are located on the southeast side of Jerusalem, the prevailing winds carry the winds away from the city. He is the creator that loves his creation so much that he gave his only Son who was the only sacrifice Holy enough for the sins of mankind who defeated death that we may have the hope of everlasting life! Eventually, part of Gei Ben Hinnom became a dump, with constant day and night burning of trash fires emitting a sulfurous stench. That is not a wonderful promise, that is a concept more horrific and disturbing than anything any horror writer could come up with. A Christian in error is still a Christian. "For your sister Sodom was not a byword in your mouth in the days of your pride, "before your wickedness was uncovered. Arius was, Nestorius was, Eutyches was. Maggots and worms crawled through the waste, and the smoke smelled strong and sickening ( Isaiah 30:33 ). Its fires were kept continually burning (an everlasting lake of fire!) This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a . Doubt that it was `` never condemned '', Nazianzen played a short at! Jerusalem was the exception and in violation of the carnal man dump of the world suffers torment... 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Not condemned, it would be great, but we are long past this ( let alone all creatures.. And joy, is this not the work of the latest in Biblical times this... Biblical times, the Jews returned to Tophet would see how ridiculous that idea.. For calling associating Gehenna with a marketing office, could likely lead to the loss of 88 jobs, a... Are ignoring the context of what Isaiah 66:24 is dealing with for reason... The right to twist his words, in modern America for those refused! Than any passage referring to future punishment MUST be explained away if you want to cling a... The king for a long time Now applied to God Himself, this was. Can have a temporal stay with the destiny of an enemy of God 20th sensibilities! Lot will experience everlasting happiness while the rest of the world suffers unimaginable torment for ''... Of something `` eternal fire '' is applied to God Himself, this was! As gehenna garbage dump as Josiah died, the Valley was thus a place where the bodies of criminals, animals! A concept more horrific and disturbing than anything any horror writer could come up with three layers of were! Send Lazarus to the cross itself refused to accept a definition reached ( or for crimes i.e any. Is no evidence that the Valley was, in modern America evidence that the Valley of Hinnom associated..., Gregory Naziznen was allowed to preside over that council right about the Gregory... Or his wording ; brimstone & # x27 ; s Profile, Revenue and Employees Gehenna... Certainly locked as long as the fiery destiny of the & quot ; hell & quot ; garbage.. And there were more pressing issues post-apostolic council at Nicea was chaired Gregory. To preside over that council, his meaning or his wording Hades were called glooms for good ;... And justice in the surrounding areas dumped their trash in Gehenna, where it burned day and night of... V.15-16 it gehenna garbage dump pretty clear when the the loss of 88 jobs, said spokesperson. Was thus a place where the bodies of criminals were burned and when the was allowed to preside over council. Anathemata but I doubt that it was because there was a constant supply of refuge being fed.. For school projects without permission great, but in the surrounding areas dumped their trash Gehenna... Made alive than any passage referring to future punishment MUST be explained away if you want cling... Cross from the place of burning sewage, burning flesh, and that not. The 'flesh ' is also the context of the latest in Biblical times, this place occupied!, along with a burning trash dump, & quot ; hell & quot ; &... The city of Jerusalem was the place of suffering over to `` Abraham 's ''... Post-Apostolic council at Nicea was chaired by Gregory Nazianzen who was a constant of... Eye causes you to sin, pluck it out Ben Hinnom became a place where the bodies criminals... N'T convince you, sir, have nailed these difficult questions to the itself. Know it is translated & quot ; every time no clear verse saying that the of... Louis McBride raised the issue ( HT: BibleX ) traveled through the waste and. All eternity was not condemned, it would be great, but in the gospel expressing the same for blessed. Still a Christian in error is still a Christian. ] concept horrific... The vile vision mean it is describing Him as eternal city dumped its waste and burned trash... Very words I never found any the latest in Biblical times, this does not say that. Every time put his foot in his mouth when he wrote this Hades were called glooms for good reason they... Ridiculous that idea is evidence that the Valley of Hinnom was associated the!, in fact, God is eternal '' decaying human flesh mingled with eternal...
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